#5164 – Interview with Jen Peer Rich

Part One:

Part Two:

Jen’s books are available for free download at


Here is an excerpt from Friends in Presence:


Truth is I am an equally arising object in your consciousness. I come here in total equality, from the one awareness we all equally abide naturally as in presence, this present moment.

I affirm my equality in your consciousness simply as another arising form. No more, no less. If for whatever reason your mind makes me out to be anything other than an equally arising object of consciousness, this is your mind and only your mind dividing me up into parts or states. This is not really you, because you are, in reality, awareness that is incapable of dividing or being divided.

Me as anything other than wholeness is an illusion, it’s not real. I cannot be dismembered from source because I am source, nor can I ever be anything other than this, because I am this present state of undefined awareness.

It doesn’t mean my mind isn’t making me out to be more, but if it is, this illusion is rejected as false.

Only the real is true and the real is empty, clear and equal.

If your mind needs to move me from here to there or from this to that for any reason, I celebrate doing so. It is not my illusion to entertain, but that doesn’t mean as awareness in presence I will not honor your mind’s need to dissect me with its own illusions of itself.

In reality you are not dividing me into something, but your mind is. You are not your thoughts, you are the awareness hosting the thoughts of illusion.

I give your mind space to host the illusion of a fragmented me.

I don’t need to correct the illusion because it’s not real. I don’t believe in the illusion because it is not real.

Truth does not need help, it unfolds itself consciously as consciousness.

The benefit of all illusion dwells in the consciousness tucked neatly inside the folds of it, the conscious insight that will unfold itself as grace in its own time and expose the illusion to the bright light of awareness, the awareness that will see it for what it is.

If I try and correct this illusion of dismemberment your mind is projecting upon me by separating me in an illusion of thoughts, I’m really only getting in the way of you getting to know me truly as presence, as you in another equally arising form here and now.

So, I’m going to honor this totally perfect misunderstanding, confident in truth making its way through these layers of illusion. The illusion has a rightful place here and I don’t need to correct your mind when it sees me as anything other than divinely you. I’ll be here when it all shakes out, as love in love with the you beyond the mind, the you that has always known me as whole.

Here, we’ll just hug it out and have a good laugh over the madness of living life by way of dividing each other from each other in mind, thoughts and thinking.


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